Re-read page 111-5. How is war described and characterized? Pay close attention to Hildeburh’s situation. What predicament does war and the heroic code leave her in? What poem(s) does this portion of the text connect to, and how so? What commentary does the poet/speaker make about war here?
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In this portion of the text, war is characterized as destructive and murderous. As a result of war and the heroic code, Hildeburh's son and brother are both killed, leaving her to grieve them. This story connects to "The Wife's Lament", in which a woman grieves for her husband, who has been exiled. The speaker in this poem views war in a negative light, lamenting on how the "feud" causes her to undergo hardship.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that the speaker of both poems are commenting on war being cruel and viewing it in a negative light, I think that the speaker of Beowulf originally presents and characterizes war in a glorified light in order to exemplify Hildeburch's predicament with war and the heroic code.
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ReplyDeleteWar is characterized as justifiable and glorified. The surviving warriors are given treasure for their efforts in battle, and the fallen warriors are glorified in their honorable deaths. Although this notion of war and the heroic code being glorified and justifiable, it leaves Hildeburch with the predicament of losing her family to battle. Hildeburch lost her son and brother in battle, and although she knows their deaths were honorable, she cannot help but feel sadness. This portion of the text relates to "The Wife's Lament" because both Hildeburch and the wife experience grief due to losing loved ones in war. The speaker is commenting on the fact that although war is honorable and justifiable, it leaves those left behind in sadness and grief when they lose their loved ones in battle.
ReplyDeleteI think in the case of this poem, war is characterized more as unjustifiable. It seems as though this battle is described as having more negatives than positives. I agree with your perspective on Hikdeburgh's predicament, and she is torn between honoring her son and brother, and mourning their loss.
DeleteI think that due to the focus on the negative outcomes and losses of the war, this particular section of Beowulf portrays war as more destructive than justified.
Deletewar is described as something that brings grief to those who have loved ones fighting. it is also seen as justified because warriors are given treasure for fighting and are honored when they die in battle. the war and heroic code leave hildeburh in deep grief for she lost her son and brother in battle. this portion of the text connects to the poem "the wife's lament" because the poem talks about loneliness and how through being alone all there is for her to do and feel is sadness. the commentary the speaker makes about war is while it can be justified at times, it leaves family behind to mourn the death os their family who died in battle.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you think the speaker's commentary reflects. I believe the author of the poem, who we know to have strong ties to Christianity, is trying to move away from the values of the heroic code. While the heroic code promotes warfare in its composition, the author is acting as an iconoclast and rejecting traditional cultural norms, and projecting battle as a desolate and murderous pursuit.
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ReplyDeleteWar is described and characterized as tragic and unnecessary. They use words like destroyed, grief, and dislodged by force, making the battle seem not worth what it was fought for. The predicament that war and the heroic Code leaves her in is that the agreement/ truce made at the end of the battle was that the Frisians would alllow the remaining Danes to take shelter at their hall. Hildeburgh is a woman and therefore is supposed to be homely and hospitable to any guests. However, these are the men that killed her son an brother, so it is difficult for her to treat them well. This portion of the text might connect to the wanderer because of the contradiction. In the warrior, we see he values the heroic value of temperance, but condemns the heroic Code as a whole because it got him exiled. This is just like this portion of Beowulf because she is torn between loyalty to her dead family members, but also is supposed to be a hospitable host. The commentary about war in this section of Beowulf is that it has serious consequences, and it can be justified, but in order to be worth it it has to be well justified.
ReplyDeleteI can understand and overall agree with your argument about Hildeburh and the heroic code, but does the heroic code apply to her, since she's a woman, and not a warrior?
DeleteI aggree and find it interesting that the author shows this opposing side to war. While there are many descriptions in Beowulf of rewards and glory with comes with a victory over a battle, the text rarely, excluding this instance, highlight the grief experienced by the defeated. Women are obviously not allowed to fight so the pain and helplessness felt must have been overwhelming, making the war seem for not. While reading this portion of the book, I began to consider this text as foreshadowing to a great defeat in the near future.
Delete^^maybe the fact that men followed the heroic code to death is what effected women and resulted in their overwhelming sadness?
DeleteWar is not glorified in these pages, however it is suggested that violence and death are parts of God's plan, as hildeburh's son and brother are described as being "born to fall," suggesting that there was some predetermination of their fate. Hildeburgh is left heartbroken, unprotected, and heir-less, and forced to enter into a truce with an enemy that has just slain her king and family. This option of the text connects to the wife's Lament because both poems describes a woman's sorrows and hardships as a result of the actions of men. The speaker seems to be commenting that the effects of war are far-reaching and often leave women in grief and sadness.
ReplyDeleteWar is described and characterized as violent and devastating. War and the heroic code leaves Hildeburh without the majority of her kingdom. The men all MUST fight in war under the heroic code, and they all die and leave Hildeburh to mourn them. This portion of the text connects to "The Wife's Lament" because both highlight the grief brought to women and families after the men have been ruined by war.
ReplyDeleteWar is characterized as violent and tumultuous, but necessary when defending one's clan's honor. Hildeburh is wife to Finn, the leader of the tribe that defeats her ancestral tribe, killing her brother and son. The heroic code that promotes courage, especially when avenging one's kin leaves her with a choice between her husband and her genealogy. She also is in mourning for her family, but knows they died a death honorable by the heroic code. This story is similar to "The Wife's lament," in which a woman searches for her exiled husband for all her times. Hildeburh will grieve for her brother and son for the rest of her times, and is a widow. While it is unclear to the wife in the wife's lament as to whether or not she is a widow, she lives the life of one, as Hildeburh will now. The speaker is saying that women are left to deal with grief after war. There are no true winners in war as all sides feel the heavy losses of their "life-bloods".
ReplyDeleteIn this text, war is described as inevitable resulting in supremacy as a victor or despair and death as a loser. Hildeberth receives the sorrow of the defeated and is filled with grief from the loss of her loved ones. She is left living as a hostage of the enemies and all who she knows is dead or gone home. From the beginning, she understood her kinsman were meant to die if not for the cause, for the integrity of their honor. Hildeberth’s situation is similar to that of the wife in the poem “Wife’s Lament.” The speaker is constantly fretting about being with her husband because she knows she has no power over whether or not they can be together. They both know war is what will keep them apart and that men will die for honor making it more probable that kinsman will leave the women early. The speaker states, “how often we swore that nothing but death should ever divide us; that is all changed now,” touching on how all wives, during that time period, understood that war would cause the likelyhood of their loved ones being taken away by death.
ReplyDeleteHow is she now seen as a hostage of the enemy? I do agree that women at the time understood the gravity of war and its major impact on their relationships with their husbands as husbands would always choose to fight despite their wives possible hesitation.
DeleteIn “Beowulf” war is described as ruinous and destructive towards those that surround it. The book mentions Hildeburh’s sorrow over her murdered kinsman under the skies where she had known her greatest joy and her grief over the loss of her brother and son. The war and heroic code leaves her in emotional distress because she losses her son and brother. This section of Beowulf relates to “The Wife’s Lament” specifically where the poem talks about a woman’s loss of her husband.
ReplyDeleteWar is characterized and described as violent and painful, because of the loss that Hidleburh now grieves about. On page 111, words and phrases such as "clash of shields" and "murdered kinsmen" convey the image of the battle as something evil that destroyed her family (son and brother), as well as her family's gory, as mentioned on page 113. Because of the heroic code and the circumstances for warriors in battle if their King dies Hidleburh, like the sorrowful wife in the Wife's Lament, is on her own because of her family's exile due to their loss. In the Wife's Lament, the wife states that she must deal with suffering because of the results of her husband's exile. Similar to this, in Beowulf Hidlebruh is said to "know deep grief". Both women are left to suffer, meaning that although men are the ones to go to battle, they aren't the only ones to suffer.
ReplyDeleteIn this section of Beowulf, war is described as mournful and painful. Because of the war, Hildeburh lost her son and brother, leaving her in deep grief. She was forced to order her own son to be placed on the pyre. War has left her in distress and the heroic code forced her to lose her loved ones forever. This portion of the text connects to "The Wife's Lament" because both the speaker in the poem and the scop in Beowulf are describing a hopeless situation that leaves a woman feeling lonely and mournful. Both mention the grieving effects war leaves on women. The poet/speaker suggest that although war is honorable to some, the outcomes affect everyone, especially the soldiers family.
ReplyDeleteIn this section in "Beowulf" war is characterized as destructive. Hildeburn is left with no family and is in a state of extreme grief due to the war and heroic code. Both these poems connect in the effects of war of women, in "The Wife's Lament" the wife is grieving the exile of her husband because she is now alone and in "Beowulf" Hildeburn is grieving the murder of her husband and son and is also now alone. The speaker/poet's commentary about war is that is destructive because it causes pain not only on the battlefield but in the families of those involved.
ReplyDeleteWar is described and characterized as something that is violent, destructive, and a taker of life, yet, it is very honorable. In Hildeburh's situation the heroic code under war has left her to honor her son and brother by burning their corpses despite the overwhelming grief she feels. This relates to "The Seafarer" because in both texts they mention how the lives lost in battle will have fame that will live forever with them in the afterlife, as well as in the world they have left behind through their reputation.
ReplyDeleteOn pages 111-5 in “Beowulf,” war is described and characterized negatively as destructive and the leading reason for mass death. Hildeburh lost her son and brother to war and experiences sadness and grief. She requests that they are given a full fire-burial and she sings mournful songs. This portion of the text connects to the poem, “The Wife’s Lament” because in the same way that Hildeburh is mourning the loss of her son and brother, the speaker in the poem mourns the loss of her loved ones to war. The speaker resents war and is tortured by exile indirectly.
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ReplyDeleteWar is characterized as destructive. Hildeburh's situation, in which she lost her son and brother, Hildebur is left devastated. She says she has lost her greatest joy now that they are gone. Due to the heroic code, requring her brother and son to risk their lives in battle, they have have died and left Hilderburh with grief. Similarly, in "The Wife's Lament" the wife is devastated because her husband has to leave her for exile. The heroic code causes her husband to have no other choice but to go on exile and leave his wife alone. In both stories, the woman has been left to suffer because their male loved ones have been taken away from her due to the war they fight in. Like the author of "Beowulf", the speaker of "The Wife's Lament" views negatively because it brings devastation to women.
Views war negatively*
DeleteI this part of the text, war is shown to be consequential to everyone. Hildeburh's son and brother die because of the heroic code, so she is sad. This connects to the poem, the Wanderer, since in both texts, the heroic code causes separation. The man in the Wanderer is separated from his family through exile, and Hildeburh is separated from her son and husband through death in war.
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly do you mean when you say they "die because of the heroic code"? In the book it mentions "she lost her loved ones in that clash of shields" (1073), talking about losing them during war. Can you explain how you relate dying because of the heroic code to their situation?
DeleteWar is described as as multitude of terrible things. Destructive, brutal, gory, and mournful are only some ways that war is described. War has come to show how it's affects not only effect men but women as well. Many people's lives are lost in battle on both sides of the front. In Beowulf, Hildeburh lost her brother and her son on the war front. She then had an honorable burning for them while she mourned. In “The Wife’s Lament,” her husband has been exiled and she has been left sorrowful and lonely. Both stories entail how exile and death lead to such sorrow and how much mourning they cause.
ReplyDeleteIn these pages of the text, war is described as destructive. In Hildeburg's situation, she loses her son and her brother in war leaving her to grieve over the losses of these blood relatives. She is affected by war, suggesting that war affects the whole family and community, and not only the ones who die in war. Much like Beowulf, the speaker in "The Wife's Lament" views war as destructive to women as they are left to grieve. In "The Wife's Lament," the husband was not the only one affected by his own exile, but the wife was left to grieve and suffer over the exile of her husband as well. Both poems reflect the speaker's belief that war is destructive to multiple people outside of the person directly affected.
ReplyDeleteHere in the text, Beowulf describes war as a depressing loss for King Finn and his kinsmen. This predicament leaves Hildeburh with deep grief because her son and brother both died in this battle. This connects to “The Wife’s Lement” because Hildeburh grieves the loss of her family members and the speaker in “The Wife’s Lement” grieves the loss of her husband. This shows us that war affects not only the men but everyone in their lives.
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